By
bob antonio on Tuesday, September
24, 2002 - 04:02 pm:
There are some decisions that contain some key
phrases. In this case, it is clear the Court of Federal Claims
judge is less than pleased with the government's presentation of
its case.
"The court hesitantly adds a coda. The court is somewhat
dismayed by the briefs filed by defendant in support of its
motion to dismiss. based on long-standing traditions, the judges
of this court rightfully expect Justice Department lawyers to
exercise diligence in advancing arguments and citing cases for
various legal propositions. Those expectations are threatened
when a motion to dismiss is seemingly viewed as an opportunity
to throw half-baked arguments against the wall in hopes that
something will stick. At the least, such conduct conflicts
with the ideals captured in the inscription on the rotunda of
the Attorney General's office, which states "[t]he United States
wins its point whenever justice is done its citizens in the
courts." Continuation of this conduct also risks the imposition
of sanctions. See RCFC 11; 28 U.S.C. § 2412. The court strongly
suggests that defendant’s attorneys demonstrate considerably
more circumspection in the future."
See "TRANSFAIR INTERNATIONAL INC., v. THE UNITED STATES" at the
link below. The case is an interesting case in its own right.
http://www.uscfc.uscourts.gov/2002.htm
By
Robin on Tuesday, September 24,
2002 - 07:13 pm:
Holy Cow Batman...that's as serious a tongue lashing
as I have ever read!!!! Wish I could be a fly on the wall when
the boss has his dicussion with this person.
By
Vern Edwards on Tuesday, September
24, 2002 - 08:57 pm:
I might be able to top Bob's quote. Here's one from
SMS Data Products Group, Inc., a 1986 protest decision of
the GSBCA, 87-1 BCA ¶ 19,486. The respondent (agency) was the
EPA; Federal Data was the winning contractor, acting as
intervenor:
"As we have earlier noted, Federal Acquisition Regulation
15.609(c) requires that vendors be notified 'at the earliest
practicable time' after it is determined that their proposals
are no longer in the competitive range. In reply to any
assertion that the contracting officer should have ejected SMS
from the competitive range in early February 1986, after he had
received the reports from the mandatory requirements and
greatest value panels on SMS's revised technical proposal of
January 6, 1986, Federal Data and the respondent regurgitate the
same swill that we were offered by the contracting officer. We
find this offering no more palatable on the second serving than
it was on the first."
By
Kennedy How on Wednesday, September
25, 2002 - 11:37 am:
A long time ago, I sat in briefly on an oral argument
in front of the Wash St Supreme Court. I timed it right to get
in on the start of the proceedings.
About 2-3minutes into the Plaintiff's presentation, the justices
interrupted the attorney, and began to take up most of his time
trying to figure out where the relevance of his arguments were.
Basically, the justices torpedo's the Plaintiff's case 2 minutes
into the proceedings.
I remember the attorney being totally baffled, and I don't
believe he ever got their arguments back on track. I also
remember that the Plaintiffs was a city, and recall thinking
that unless the Defendants were even less prepared, the City
would lose.
I didn't stay for the whole thing, and I never got the court's
opinion.
So, while reading a serious tongue-lashing in an opinion is
impressive, it's even more impressive when the tongue-lashing is
in person by the justices....
Kennedy
By
bob antonio on Wednesday, September
25, 2002 - 12:20 pm:
Kennedy:
A similar situation existed with the final trip to the U. S.
Supreme Court by Adarand in October 2001. Although the attorney
for Adarand was speaking before a Court that appeared friendly
to his cause, he was interrupted after his 74th word. From that
word forward, he was on the defensive. The justices that
initially worked him over appeared to be the same that sided
with him in 1995. He never was given an opportunity to make a
coherent presentation. It must have been an awful feeling for
the fellow. He had waited 6 years to make his case and the
justices did not give him a minute to make his presentation.
By
Anonymous on Thursday, September
26, 2002 - 01:57 am:
Tongue lashings are fine. They are nice vents. They do
nothing whatsoever to cull the incompetent and disingenuous from
the ranks. They will be back time and time again with the same
swill. They will play the "How many times can a Federal Court
hold an official in contempt" game. Their supervisors will
probably give them a little purple heart of some sort.
Tongue lashing needs to be followed by something that actually
does stick to a wall, perhaps a cell wall. At least it should
result in a demotion, exile to the worst post available or
walking papers. I say this not just to be mean. The cost to the
system of this garbage is not trivial. When an agency screws up
and fights rather than correcting a mistake it costs us dearly
in dollars, lost time and confidence. Consequences of foolish,
obtuse attempts to be right at all costs are not sufficient to
promote "natural selection" in the bureaucracy.
By
Kennedy How on Thursday, September
26, 2002 - 12:02 pm:
We don't really know what the full story is behind
what the Justice Dept was thinking when they submitted their
briefs. It's been my experience that they are selective as to
what they choose to pursue, and even if you have an airtight
case, if it isn't something worthwhile, they may not take it.
Sure it wasn't their finest hour, but I'm not 100% sure it was a
total waste of effort. Especially if the agency is using those
same arguments to further their case, and now you have a judge
refuting them. This case may end up getting settled after this
point.
We had a DCAA DP case once, DCAA alleged fraud. The Justice Dept
tried to get a Grand Jury indictment on the facts of the case,
but the Grand Jury declined. DCAA still harasses us as to why we
haven't clobbered the contractor over this; apparently, they
don't understand that you don't have a case when the Grand Jury
declines to indict.
This is not to say that if you have sloppy research by
unqualified folks, that is excuseable. But, I'm trying to give
those folks the benefit of the doubt, and if that's the best
that they can do, the case seems to be a sure loser. And, in
those cases, the JD will tell you it's not worth their while to
pursue it.
Kennedy
By
Vern Edwards on Thursday, September
26, 2002 - 12:15 pm:
Kennedy:
I hope you never have the experience of having the Justice Dept.
hound you for two or three years, or even longer, because they
don't understand what you did and think that you have therefore
done something wrong. I've seen that happen now in a couple of
cases and it has had a profound effect on my thinking about the
Justice Dept's competence in federal contracting cases.
By
anon on Thursday, September 26,
2002 - 05:09 pm:
You can't count on the JDs to put the brakes on a bad
case. I once worked on a claim for costs on a cost-reimbursement
contract. Short version: CO refused to pay costs that were
allowable under Part 31. His legal advisor backed him up by
citing some lines from a fixed-price case about sovereign acts.
You might be able to excuse the legal advisor for being
inexperienced, but as the case went on to the board and higher,
a lot of people with a lot of knowledge and experience came up
with more arguments for not paying the contractor. Why? Because
they didn't want to pay the contractor. After much litigation
and money, the government still lost. What a waste.
By
AnonYmus on Thursday, September 26,
2002 - 05:45 pm:
Just want to add the thought that under 31.205-47, the
costs of prosecuting a claim against the US are 100%
unallowable. When defending, even if a contractor wins, the
legal expenses are only 80% allowable.
I've seen contractors run-up millions in legal bills and,
generally, it comes out of the bottom-line. How many times can
this happen before the contractor is contemplating Chapter 11?
Just a thought.
By
Ned Kelly on Thursday, September
26, 2002 - 06:16 pm:
This message raises concerns in addition to those
raised by Vern Edwards in his comment about the Department of
Justice's competence in Federal contracting cases.
Vern,
Justice Department attorneys in general and Assistant United
States Attorneys for the various districts in particular have a
shallow understanding of Federal fiscal and procurement laws.
However, I am much more concerned about agency attorneys who
should be ensuring compliance with fiscal and procurement laws
but instead think their role is to enable agency clients,
military officers in particular, to do whatever they desire
unfettered by fiscal and procurement laws.
I recognize that the practice of law is not an academic
exercise. Agency attorneys, like their counterparts in private
practice, have agency officials as clients who want assistance
in achieving their objectives and want their positions zealously
defended in litigation.
In my opinion, however, the reason that “garbage” is routinely
filed before courts and boards is twofold. First, agency
attorneys are rewarded for assisting clients in achieving client
objectives in an expedited manner, and many agency attorneys
have built their careers on a “can do” attitude that equates to
nothing more than advancing disingenuous interpretations of
Federal statutes and regulations, which thwart Congressional
intent, defy common sense, and lack any semblance of integrity.
These are the same sort of attorneys that advance disingenuous
position in filing before courts and boards, they think their
role is to defend their client’s positions even if they know (or
should know) those positions are legally or morally wrong.
Second, garbage is routinely filed before courts and boards
because agency attorneys are allowed to get away with it. Unlike
their counterparts in the business sector, agency attorneys are
not held personally accountable for disingenuous legal opinions,
misleading (or false) statements of fact, and a lack of
responsiveness. GAO’s Bid Protest forum is the worst offender in
terms of a systematic failure to hold agency employees,
including attorneys, accountable for their filings. Have you
ever wondered why GAO’s protest sustainment percentage is so
low?
The GAO Bid Protest regulations indicate that there is a
prohibition against ex parte communications in the protest
process. How many of you know that anytime a GAO attorney needs
“additional information” to dismiss or deny protest allegations
the standard practice is for the GAO attorney to telephone the
agency attorney and discuss issues “off-the-record”, without
permitting protester participation in the conversation?
Unfortunately, what happens is the GAO attorney explains to the
agency attorney exactly what “additional information” is needed
to dismiss or deny the protest allegations, and agency attorney
will file a Supplement to the Agency Report doing his or her
best to give the GAO attorney the additional information
required to win. No attorney likes to lose. The agency attorney
knows that the GAO attorney would not have telephoned for
additional information if the protest allegations could be
dismissed or denied outright, so the agency attorney recognizes
that there is a chance that he or she might lose the protest
depending on his or her ability to provide the additional
information required to win.
In such situations, an agency attorney must decide how
“zealously” he or she is willing to defend the agency’s actions.
Does the agency attorney draw the line at filing a Supplement
that is somewhat misleading (depending on how one interprets
it), outright misleading, or patently false? I strongly suggest
that those of you in the business sector should remember to
raise an eyebrow anytime a Supplement to an agency report is
filed under the signature of a different agency attorney than
the one who filed the initial report (wink, wink). In my
opinion, GAO’s standard practice of ex parte communications with
agency attorneys to request additional information should cease,
because such communications always work to the detriment of the
protester and often result in agency attorneys taking
inappropriate action.
Isn’t it ironic: “GAO will not permit protest allegations to be
presented in a piecemeal manner”, but agency attorneys are given
an incentive to defend agency actions in a piecemeal manner.
Agency attorneys say as little as possible in the Agency Report,
because they do not want to provide any new information that may
result in a protester raising a new protest allegations, and
agency attorneys know that GAO will give them an off-the-record
telephone call if additional information is needed to dismiss or
deny the protester’s allegations. More importantly, the
telephone call from the GAO attorney always comes after the
ten-calendar day period for filing Comments on the Agency Report
has passed, so the protester is prevented from effectively
raising new protest allegations based on the additional
information received after Comments were due, because of the
prohibition against the piecemeal presentation of protest
allegations.
Since I am rambling, here are three more examples of the GAO Bid
Protest forum’s failure to hold agencies (not to mention agency
attorneys) accountable for their filings. First, GAO attorneys
frequently dismiss protest allegations for being untimely, but
GAO refuses to hold agencies to any timeliness standards. It is
not uncommon for Agency Reports to be filed late, and agency
attorneys know that GAO never penalizes any agency for a late
filing. This is peculiar because 31 USC 3553(b)(2) states:
Except as provided in paragraph (3) of this subsection, a
Federal agency receiving a notice of a protested procurement ...
shall submit to the Comptroller General a complete report
(including all relevant documents) on the protested procurement
-
(A) within 30 days after the date of the agency's receipt of
that notice;
(B) if the Comptroller General, upon a showing by the Federal
agency, determines (and states the reasons in writing) that the
specific circumstances of the protest require a longer period,
within the longer period determined by the Comptroller General;
In violation of the plain language of the law, GAO accepts late
Agency Reports without requiring any showing by the Federal
agency of the specific circumstances of the protest that
necessitated a period of longer than 30 calendar days to file
the Agency Report and without GAO making a written determination
in this regard. GAO has no authority to waive this statutory
requirement. GAO should sustain protests where agency reports
are not filed in a timely manner under the theory that the
agency elected not to defend itself against the protest
allegations.
Another example of a GAO’s refusal to require agency
accountability is its acceptance of Statements of Facts
contained in agency reports that are not signed by a Contracting
Officer, even though GAO Bid Protest Regulation 21.3 (d) states:
“The report shall include the contracting officer's statement of
the relevant facts….” My experience has been that when a
contracting officer with cognizance over a procurement subject
to a protest is unwilling to sign his or her signature to the
Statement of Facts in the Agency Report prepared by an agency
attorney, it is because the contracting officer is not
comfortable with the agency attorney’s “zealous” presentation of
the facts.
I am familiar with a recent consolidated protest before GAO in
which the protester argued in writing that the agency filings
contained misleading and false statements and pointed-out that
not one of the four contracting officers with cognizance over
the protested procurements had signed the Statement of Facts in
the consolidated report. The protester then went on to present
agency records to prove that the Agency Report contained false
and misleading statements of fact. However, even after the
agency attorney was forced to concede that “errors” were made
due to “miscommunications”, GAO refused to draw any negative
inference from the fact that no agency contracting officer was
willing to sign the Statement of Facts and a few of the disputed
statements of facts had been conclusively proven to false. Why
does GAO delude itself into believing that agency employees who
have been accused in writing of violating procurement
regulations or acting in an unreasonable manner are
disinterested parties for purposes of defending their own
actions in response to a GAO bid protest? There should be a
requirement for all Statement of Facts presented before GAO to
be signed by an agency official under penalty of perjury. I
predict that such a requirement would drastically increase the
percentage of protests that are sustained.
A third example of a GAO’s refusal to require agency
accountability is its refusal to penalize an agency for failing
to disclose all documents relevant to protest allegations along
with the Agency Report. Agency attorneys should be reprimanded
for not turning over all relevant documents in a timely manner
and agencies should be required to reimburse protesters for
forcing them to incur the attorney fees necessary to obtain
documents that should have been filed accompanying the Agency
Report. In many instances, agency attorneys only turn over the
documents that are specifically referenced in the Agency Report
and force the protester to fight to obtain any other document.
By the way, my biggest gripe with the GAO Bid Protest forum is
that on past occasions GAO attorneys have denied protests after
concluding that the interpretation of a Federal Acquisition
Regulation (FAR) provision advanced by an agency attorney is
“reasonable”, even though that interpretation happens to be
inconsistent with the Federal statute that the FAR provision was
supposed to implement. Vern, I have observed that you are quick
to criticize DAU professors who incorrectly answers the
questions posed to them, but you are conspicuously silent when
GAO attorneys accept an agency interpretation of a FAR provision
that is inconsistent with the Federal statute that the FAR
provisions was supposed to implement. Is there a reason for this
other than economic self-interest?
Ned
By
Vern Edwards on Friday, September
27, 2002 - 10:59 am:
Ned:
I am silent when GAO attorneys accept an agency
interpretation of a FAR provision that is inconsistent with
Federal statute?
How long have you been reading Wifcon Chat? You must have missed
some things. Didn't you read, among other postings, my criticism
of the GAO's denial of the protests of Du & Associates, Inc.
and MCR Federal, Inc., for which I was sorely taken to
task by Eric Ottinger?
Get a grip, Dude! I have criticized everybody here. I don't keep
quiet in order to protect my economic self-interest. What an
insult!
Frankly, I find it laughable that you think agency lawyers see
their role as enabling their clients to do whatever they desire.
Oh, but I wish that were true. In my experience, as often as
not, they're telling agency contracting officials that they
can't do what the regulations do, in fact, allow. You should
have been with me about five or six years ago when I described
my ideas about oral presentations to a room full of Navy lawyers
in Crystal City, Virginia. I didn't think I'd get out of that
room alive. I'm not real popular with some agency lawyers.
I have to confess that I don't know much about protest
procedures at the GAO, since I don't do protest consulting. You
may be right about what's going on. But I'm frankly not
interested in protest procedures. In my view, any company that
files a protest when it loses a competition is managed by an
idiot. What a waste of money, trying to litigate your way into a
contract.
You're complaining about the GAO's legal procedure. Give me a
call the next time you're in Portland, Oregon, and I'll buy you
a beer so you can cry in it.
Vern
By
Ned Kelly on Friday, September 27,
2002 - 02:04 pm:
Vern,
My profuse apologies if you construed my question concerning
your economic self-interest as an insult. It was intended as a
frank question, not an unkind accusation.
I have been reading Wifcon Chat for only a month, but I did
review all threads in the on-line achieve on topics of interest
to me. Since the current administration has virtually no
interest in "business process re-engineering" and thinks
"acquisition reform" may be achieved by simply canceling
regulations, I have begun looking at non-government sources to
feel the pulse of the Federal Contracting community.
Frankly, I do not think all agency attorneys see their role as
enabling their clients to do whatever they desire. Certain
agency attorneys are nothing more than pulps on the colon of
progress. I have encountered agency attorneys who approach their
jobs as an academic exercise. It does not matter to them what
objectives their clients are trying to achieve. They perceive
themselves as judges who must halt any agency action that is
inconsistent with their personal interpretation of the
applicable law and regulation. I also have encountered agency
attorneys who assert that a procurement document is “legally
insufficient” simply because they do not agree with the
underlying business judgment. I also have encountered agency
attorneys who are risk-adverse and refuse to support anything
out-of-the box, simply because it is not a tried-and-true method
and a disgruntled competitor might challenge it. I recall the
resistance I encountered many years ago from agency attorneys
when I suggested that the fully-burdened labor rates proposed by
companies competing for fixed-priced service contracts could be
evaluated for “price realism”.
Contracting officers complain loudly about agency attorneys who
are nothing but hindrances. They rarely do anything but whisper
behind closed doors about agency attorneys who enable their
clients to achieve objectives by: pretending a change is within
the scope of the contract when it really isn’t (so a
Justification and Approval does not have to be generated);
signing-off on a bogus sole source Justification and Approval
(to keep the incumbent contractor performing); and, assisting in
the concealment of unauthorized commitments or other improper
procurement actions. I said: “many agency attorneys have built
their careers on a ‘can do’ attitude that equates to nothing
more than advancing disingenuous interpretations of Federal
statutes and regulations, which thwart Congressional intent,
defy common sense, and lack any semblance of integrity.” I was
not generalizing about all agency attorneys. I was complaining
about certain agency attorneys who I believe are responsible for
initiating most of the “garbage” arguments that are raised
before courts and boards.
I am not sure how to interpret your comment: “I don't do protest
consulting.” Does this comment mean that you don’t offer agency
personnel your opinions on strategies for responding to protests
(e.g., permitting a company that protested its exclusion from
the competitive range to rejoin the competition) in your
courses? Does this mean that you have not offered agencies
advice on responding to specific protest allegations as part of
your consulting services?
I have been unsuccessful in communicating my thoughts if you
think I am merely complaining about GAO's legal procedure. My
goal was to complain about much more. And, I am puzzled that
neither you nor anyone else invited me to point-out instances
where GAO had interpreted FAR provisions in a manner
inconsistent with the Federal statutes that the FAR provisions
were supposed to implement. This forum is not just the thing for
me. But, perhaps we can chat again in another forum.
Kindest regards,
Ned
By
Vern Edwards on Friday, September
27, 2002 - 02:50 pm:
When I say that I don't do protest consulting, I mean
that I don't take money to advise companies or agencies about
protests. I have given several contracting officers advice about
how to avoid or respond to a protest, but only on a personal
basis. When companies ask me about protesting I tell them that a
protest is a waste of time and money. Winning a protest does not
mean you'll win the contract, which, presumably, is the
objective.
I didn't ask you to provide an instance of GAO interpreting a
statute wrongly because statutory interpretation is a matter of
opinion and what matters is whose opinion counts. The GAO's
opinion counts, not yours or mine. All we would end up with is
your opinion against theirs, and maybe I'd agree with you and
maybe I wouldn't. What would it prove one way or another?
Vern
By
Kennedy How on Monday, September
30, 2002 - 12:13 pm:
I wanted to post this Friday, but there was a server
glitch, according to Bob.... Anyway,
Vern,
I hope I don't either!
Maybe I'm being naive about it, but I suppose the Justice Dept
could go ahead and pursue a loser case even though the
originating agency decides it wouldn't be a good idea to do to.
The agency probably doesn't have anything to lose, so they could
conceivably acquiesce and provide whatever support to keep the
case going.
On the other hand, the JD could say it was a loser case, but the
agency decides to keep pursuing it, on the principle of the
matter. Somebody higher than me would make that kind of
decision, and I suppose the JD would have to go along with it,
since we're all working for the Govt.
In my previous understandings, the JD will tell you where you
stand, but it was up to the agency to decide whether to go
forward or not.
In the instant decision that Bob is referring to, it could also
be that somebody else would have a vested interest in it.
Kennedy
By
Anonymous on Tuesday, October 01,
2002 - 11:38 am:
Ned: Interesting comments. You seem pretty cynical,
but you express yourself well and I hope to read more of your
comments at this forum. I've found the biggest problem with
agency attorneys to be their shallow understanding of the
procurement process (I agree with you there.) The second is a
little harder to express. May I suggest that the position of
agency attorney tends to attract a type of lawyer who can not
really cut it in the private sector, who lacks the required
self-confidence in his adverserial skills, and who does not want
to work that hard, while still keeping the title of esquire? Is
that unfair?
By
Vern Edwards on Tuesday, October
01, 2002 - 05:20 pm:
Anonymous:
As someone who has disagreed with government procurement lawyers
on more than one occasion, I have to say that you paint with a
pretty broad brush, and a harsh one, at that.
Do you feel that way about all government employees, or just
government lawyers?
By
Anon on Wednesday, October 02, 2002
- 08:46 am:
As a fed. gov't contracting specialist/
officer/procurement analyst (I've worn many hats) I have found
that gov't lawyers are typical of any other profession - there
are the good and the bad, the good ones have earned my deepest
respect, the bad ones, my contempt. I've also dealt with private
sector attorneys, the same holds true.
By
Anonymous on Wednesday, October 02,
2002 - 09:47 am:
From 10/1 11:38 Anonymous:
Vern:
No, I do not feel that way about all govt. employees. In my
limited experience with govt. attorneys, however, the
personality type I have met has tended to be as I described
yesterday. For me to state otherwise would not be accurate. I do
not know about you, but I am not really that confident when I am
represented by a nervous attorney. And no, it was not my cases
that made them nervous, the two or three protests I have had
over 15 years as a CO have been easy wins where the vendor was
clearly off base in his assertions. Nor has my agency got a bad
record for protests. I think that was just the way they were. I
really hope my very limited sample has been not indicative of
the broader breed, but I have started to wonder and am
interested in the experiences of others at this forum. (The
shallow knowledge of contracting factor, however, I have seen
many times during routine reviews of solicitations and contracts
by govt. lawyers).
By
anonconorig on Thursday, October
03, 2002 - 07:47 pm:
Vern:
Man are you right about the protest issue. Recently we won a
contract. We were the incumbent (small business). Stayed below
budget during the duration of the contract( on a CPFF mind you),
had great reviews fron the client on a very complex contract. We
won the follow on. The CO just faxed me the papers that the
other firm's counsel filed with the GAO. So many holes in their
argument, I was looking to see if the law firm was affiliated
with the swiss cheese market! Unfortunately, will require more
work from me and our firm, depending on whether or not GAO
summarily dismisses it.
What a waste. By the way, the other firm was founded 5 years
ago-body shop, we were the incumbent for 8 years and have our
personnel in place. What a pain!
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